However, others reflected on their own use of the greeting - which they view as harmless. So, let’s put aside the argument of whether or not you consider “guys” to be gender neutral, and ask a different question: If you knew that your language, this single word, “guys,” was making a person you’re addressing uncomfortable, wouldn’t you want to change it? Another defended using guys, stating: “What would you say instead, humans? Even if guys is widely regarded as gender-neutral, there will still be a sizable contingent of conscientious objectors. True, the word guys has a gender-neutral sense in Dictionary.com of “persons of either sex; people.”. I know that progressive, descriptive dictionaries like Merriam-Webster state that both “guy” and “guys” are gender neutral, while Oxford still states that the singular form is male. Let's educate them! While many people feel "guys" is now a gender-neutral term, critics say it can be an exclusionary way to refer to a mixed-gender group or a group of women. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. ( Log Out /  I would say this is the number one question I get in contexts where I am out as nonbinary. The main issue with the informal greeting, as summed up by Garvey, is “I am not a guy.”. I don’t know many people who use “guy” singular, to refer to somebody who doesn’t identify as male. Yes. The word “guys” isn’t gender neutral. I invite you to consider this, though. I am aware of plenty of women who will say “guys” when referring to a mixed-gender group. My point is that it’s harmful. Words mean different things to different people. In almost every context it is considered a gender-neutral term. Experts say the word "guys" is gender neutral and can be used in an inclusive sense to address men and women at work, contrary to the recent advice of Australian of the Year David Morrison. Using Gender-Neutral Language Can Help Undo Sexism — Here’s How. I've been called buddy/bud so many times and thought it's gender-neutral. View all posts by mattcen. “I think lots of us use this term in a totally generic non-harmful way,” one person wrote. Zackary Drucker/The Gender Spectrum Collection. "You guys" is a synonym for "mankind", and if we adopt "guy" as a gender neutral word in a few decades, we mind as well keep using "man" to refer to women and men, as well as policeman, congressman, repairman, etc. Log in to Reply. Start your Independent Premium subscription today. But as not everyone interprets it that way, probably the safest policy is to try to avoid it. Also, in religious texts and in medical science "mankind" is till used to refer to all people. As the event was remembered year to year, men, women, and children who marched in the parade carrying Guy Fawkes effigies were referred to as guys. It is 100% gender neutral, and always has been. If we want to diversify our workplaces (and who wouldn’t, given so much evidence that diversity is a Good Thing? Guys is not gender neutral. I know that progressive, descriptive dictionaries like Merriam-Webster state that both “guy” and “guys” are gender neutral, while Oxford still states that the singular form is male. Opinions mine. It’s not that hard! Learn how your comment data is processed. The greeting 'guys' is often used as a gender-neutral term. People? 1. I’ve just done a quick search, and found this blog post, which adds, among others: (check out that post for more), and that post references Ways Men In Tech Are Unintentionally Sexist, which I’ve only skimmed, but which is an amazing resource and links to heaps of other amazing resources, such as A Guy Is A Man Is A Guy, and Geek Feminism. What if your language, to that individual (and there may be many of them in any given group), tells them “I assume that this is a male-dominated group and anybody else is an anomaly who isn’t important enough to be recognised or addressed?” There’s a good chance that person isn’t comfortable raising this issue themselves, so you have no way of knowing how many people feel excluded by the word “guys.”. Read our full mailing list consent terms here. People who aren’t men can feel excluded when addressed as “guys,” even if that is not the intent. There are certain situations that I’m so used to saying “guys” in, that I have a lot of unlearning to do. So I called my friend who's a trans woman buddy over text, which really upset her. You tell her you think she’s such a guy, a great guy, the smartest guy you’ve ever known. Good guy and bad guy have established more genericity but still suggest men. I work in IT. I also never said I was offended by this. Understanding the vocabulary Gender-neutral is a vague term, and that is purposeful. To me "guys" is like "ellos" where you can use it for a group of both women and men but you wouldn't call just a group of women "ellos" or guys. In my opinion, it’s a needless microagression. Gender-Neutral Parenting (GNP) Isn’t About Gender-Neutral Toys. Problem/Motivation Many in the community don't understand why other people take exception to being called "guys". Although some people consider “you guys” a gender-neutral term, others find it exclusive, since “guys” is traditionally masculine. The appropriateness of using the greeting “hi guys” when addressing a group of men and women is up for debate after a woman suggested people should “never” use it - because other, gender-neutral greetings are more inclusive of women. Words from a queer, feminist Linux sysadmin/dev/advocate and geek. But the literal translation is "may a mouse eat you", In Hungary 'bogarkam' translates to 'my little insect', Italian: "Microbino mio" means "my little microbe", Dutch people sometimes call their loved one "mijn poepie" which literally translates to "my little poo", {{#verifyErrors}} {{message}} {{/verifyErrors}} {{^verifyErrors}} {{message}} {{/verifyErrors}}, Unusual terms of endearment from around the world, Woman says people should never use 'guys' to address men and women, This couple is raising their child as a gender-neutral 'they-by'. Now, back to the matter at hand: changing your language. In a blog post on the subject, Cameron elaborated, suggesting that using guys as a greeting gives insight to the speaker’s broader grasp of the situation. A reference to two of the most famous ancient beauties of China: one so beautiful that when she looked into a pond the fish forgot to swim and sank to the bottom; the other, made the geese forget to flap their wings. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. But the important thing is that I’m trying, and after just a couple of months of conscious effort, 90% of the time, I was not using a term that some people may find exclusionary. “You’re choosing your words to say something about how you see yourself, the person you’re talking to, the situation you’re in and the relationship between you,” she wrote, before stating that “guys” is “relaxed and friendly.”. For example, I think most people would read "I have dated a lot of guys" as meaning "men". In Japan, calling someone "tamago gata no kao", translates to "an egg with eyes", In German, "Zaubermaus" translates as "magic mouse", In France, “mon petit chou” is used the same way the English say sweetheart, but the direct translation would actually be “my little cabbage”, In Persian, "moosh bokhoradet" means whoever you are talking to is adorable. Linux sysadmin/advocate, @scoutsvic leader, @okfnau, bisexual/polyamorous geek. Language only works when common definitions are accepted by all, this is unproductive and absolutely absurd.”. If you're not sure which pronoun to use, you can also use that person's name. In English, this includes use of nouns that are not gender-specific to refer to roles or professions, formation of phrases in a coequal manner, and discontinuing the blanket use of male terms. Yes. “Hey guys” is a common salutation, but it’s not gender neutral. This hasn't stopped one man — Australian of the year, no less — from saying enough is enough. Mev mev AT litwomen.org ===== Ways Men In Tech Are Unintentionally Sexist, Open Source, Decentralised, and Federated Social Media Alternatives, Improving diversity and inclusion at tech (and other) events, Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. Just because some, maybe even many, people who don’t identify as men consider “guys” to be gender neutral, that doesn’t mean everyone does. What if one person in that target group being referred to as “guys” does consider it to be a gendered term, and as a result, feels othered by your language? Gender neutrality is becoming a recognized and important term as industries and society as a whole begin to understand the diversity of their consumers. The word ‘guys’ is only gender-neutral under patriarchy. OK, but it also defines the word guy as “a man”, so it could be argued that using guys as a gender-neutral address subconsciously reinforces society’s male-as-default paradigm. That guy is nearly always male, some guys normally so. It’s not done out of ignorance or sexism, it’s done for the sake of simplicity. Why "guys" isn't gender neutral in our community Why "guys" isn't gender neutral in our community. What’s up guys, gals, and non-binary pals? Infuriatingly so, especially when used by waiters…” one person responded. ( Log Out /  Hey guys. Words do mean different things depending on who hears them. I may used to have been something like a guy, in a past life, but I'm not now. So, I have always used “dude” and “guy” as completely gender neutral. So pick a new word to replace “guys” in your everyday vocabulary. The “guys” microagression is one of many ways equality is thwarted. China: "Chen yu iuo yan meaning "diving fish, swooping geese" is an elaborate way of calling someone beautiful. “Common parlance among the young isn’t it? I wrote this post because when I was looking recently, I couldn’t find a good article that communicated this point. Want an ad-free experience?Subscribe to Independent Premium. Gender-neutral language or gender-inclusive language is language that avoids bias towards a particular sex or social gender. Or perhaps take for example the title of the 1950 musical "Guys and Dolls". Change ). Someone stands at the front and says, “I want all the guys to stand up.” What happens next? As I mention in the book, I do prefer the non-pink version of things because just slapping pink on a toy and calling it “girl” is insulting to girls (and boys). GLSEN, an education organization that advocates for policies designed to protect LGBTQ students and students of marginalized identities, advised defaulting to gender-neutral language such as “friends,” “folks,” “all” or “y’all” rather than “brothers and sisters” or “guys,” “ladies,” “ma’am” or “sir.” I think Sid’s point was that to some, “you guys” is completely gender-neutral. The word hen, the researchers believe, helped to … If you think of one, please get in touch as we’re not aware of any. Stop calling me a guy. Pretty frustrated, that's how this not-guy is doing. After a month of being acutely aware each time I used the word 'guys' in the wrong context, catching myself (and finding alternate words to … See you later guys. July 5, 2012 at 12:52 pm Some might even use it to refer to a group of all non-male people. BBC Woman’s Hour host Jane Garvey started the conversation by suggesting the new “rule” on Twitter, where she wrote: “New rule- ‘Hi guys! I’ll usually only use “dude” as an aside. The first time it was used in prominence was shortly after the gunpowder plot of 1605. Some examples include: Folks, folx , or everybody instead of guys … He/him. there are plenty of alternatives: Those are just the few I came up with off the top of my head. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. But the most common and prominent meaning of the word is “a man or boy; fellow.”. For them, it brings up all the bad history and cannot be seen as gender-neutral due to baggage. Other gender-neutral pronouns include 'them', 'this person', 'everyone', 'Ze', or 'Hir'. Is "you guys" a gender-neutral term? How are you guys doing today? I didn't mean any harm. Does it tho? There are plenty of them. Want to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? I must admit that I have a habit of using it as such. People will often say things like “you guys,” “dude, it would be…”, or “thanks man” around me out of habit, quickly realize their potential faux pas, and clarify that they meant it in a gender neutral way. The gender-neutral pronoun also appeared to improve positive feelings towards LGBT people. It requires time and effort, to stop using “guys” as a collective noun for a group of diverse genders. It won’t take all that long to get used to if you keep at it, I promise you, and most people won’t even notice the change. Note the expression on her face. “Guys” to me can be both gendered and neutral depending on the context. !’ NEVER say this.”, The Radio 4 host then joked that the greeting is only appropriate if you are the “daringly informal guest speaker at the annual meeting of The Society of People Named Guy.”. Like many other fields, it’s male-dominated. Jane Garvey says never use 'hi guys' (Getty), Polish: 'kruzynko' is a term of endearment meaning 'breadcrumb'. - nullify 'guys is gender-neutral' counter-arguments (as justafish's replies did in slack) - suggest better ways to greet people (as @dorf did in slack) Remaining tasks * Blog post to If you still would like to be convinced that “guys” isn’t gender neutral, A Guy Is A Man Is A Guy offers three exemplary thought experiments: Thought Experiment #1: Imagine a room full of men and women. New rule- … According to Garvey, using the traditionally gender-neutral “people” is more appropriate when addressing a mixed group - a sentiment early stated by the Australian Diversity Council, who warned against the use of the terms “girls” and “guys” at work in 2016. I'm not a guy. Goodie and baddie are … In response to her suggestion, many people agreed with her stance - sharing their own issues with the use of the term. In my experience, "guys" and "dude" are inoffensive as gender-neutral terms except for when used on people who have experience being misgendered for real. I don’t know many people who use “guy” singular, to refer to somebody who doesn’t identify as male. She took offense saying the word buddy is used only when referring to a man. I do think "you guys" might seem to have become gender-neutral -- but really, it's not, in the way we thought for so long that mankind supposedly included women! I have largely settled on “folks” as my replacement word, and I still slip up after at least a year of trying. Yes. You’re offended by people saying ‘guys?’ Maybe there are bigger things to worry about, or maybe you just have the need to feel like a victim. Presumably my search-fu wasn’t working that day, because I’ve just found several, which I’ve referenced below. There's a pretty strong argument that guys isn't a fully gender neutral term. - and like with the naming of all things, it matters. If … PGP: DB91 CFEF 322D C608 385F 563C 2F88 1AC6 4A16 1033 Guys, guys and more guys. Thought Experiment #3: You turn on cable news and the first thing you hear is someone saying, “Everyone knows it’s a guy’s world.” Picture in your mind what he’s trying to say. ( Log Out /  Thought Experiment #2: You are with a woman. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. ( Log Out /  'They', for instance, is a third-person pronoun that is gender neutral. However, that is not the primary aim of GNP toy purchasing. When addressing a room, I’ll say “hey, guys!”. How many words can you think of that are considered gender-neutral today that have historically been used to refer to women? ), we need to stop using language that may make people feel excluded or uncomfortable. The greeting 'guys' is often used as a gender-neutral term, Find your bookmarks in your Independent Premium section, under my profile. We can avoid erasing women and nonbinary people from everyday conversations by using gender-neutral descriptions. Some argue that male-generic terms such as this reinforce androcentric bias and male privilege. ‘Guys, as a gender-neutral term, may ease out mate.’ ‘Though it is often discussed in gender-neutral language, childcare is primarily a women's issue.’ ‘If they're using gender-neutral pronouns, it may be they simply don't want to tell you.’ 99% of the time I’m around mixed company. People can worry about the “bigger” things and still care about this. Proposed resolution Write a blog post about this phenomenon. But for those that do notice, it’ll mean the world to them. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Yes, I know that many people treat it as gender neutral, even people who don’t identify as male. Always check your audience. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. However, the Oxford Dictionary defines “guys” as “people of either sex,” and Oxford language professor Deborah Cameron previously said “If women want to be addressed as ‘guys’, I’m not going to tell them they’re betraying the feminist cause. Our 30-day 'guys jar' challenge was a success, creating lasting change in the gender-neutral language we use every day here at Hotjar. So what does this mean for gender neutral skincare and the beauty industry in general? 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